Gays in Troop Would Be OK, Scoutmaster Says
Boy Scouts of America expected to make decision that could overturn policy on sexual orientation restriction this week.
For more than 100 years, the inclusion of openly gay males to the Boy Scouts of America has been banned. This week, however, a single vote may change that.
It is believed the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) National Board will make a decision this week, as early as Wednesday, either reinforcing its current policy or lifting the ban on homosexuals.
If the policy is overturned, it would remove the ban as a national policy, but leave the decision of whether or not to include openly gay males to each local chapter.
For one Long Valley troop, the change would actually be welcomed.
“[Allowing homosexuals to join Scouts] Is not an issue,” said Troop 36 Scoutmaster Jay DeBoey. “It’s not something we concern ourselves with. [Sexual orientation] is not what Scouts is about.”
DeBoey, now in his second year as the troop’s Scoutmaster, said while he was not speaking on behalf of the troop’s members or their parents, he believed many of the participating families were on the same page when it came to the topic.
He also said scoutmasters, by and large, are usually in line with doing what the national council asks of them. So if the board overturns the policy, Troop 36 would have no problem being in line with the inclusion policy, DeBoey said.
“We try hard to leave politics aside,” DeBoey said about his discussions with members of the troop. “But the thought (within the troop) is wider inclusion is better.”
For Troop 36, the focus has always been and always will be about teaching leadership and life skills, DeBoey said.
In a CBS News segment prior to Super Bowl XLVII on Sunday, President Barack Obama said he believed the BSA should overturn the policy and become fully inclusive.
In July 2012, BSA reiterated its stance on not being fully-inclusive by saying “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, we fully understand that no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society.”
Where do you stand? What do you think the BSA should do at the national level?
Tracy Lazorchak
6:53 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Good for you DeBoey, for not allowing discrimination in your troop. Way to set an example. We have no right to judge anyone! God loves all.
Beth
8:18 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Bravo, Mr. DeBoey!
Thomas Lotito
9:06 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
It goes against all that the Boy Scouts stand for to let the homosexual agenda infiltrate their organization and destroy it. If the Long Valley Presbyterian church doesn't publicly stand up against this radical change to their troop, they they have lost their way and are no longer a Christian Church. Scouting is not about sexual orientation, it's about learning self reliance and moral character.
Not Domino
9:47 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thomas, I am not a homosexual, but I find your use of the words "agenda", "infiltrate", and "destroy" to be wholly inappropriate and grossly exaggerative. You are making an obvious and desperate attempt to try to use flowery but figurative language to rally people around YOUR agenda, which would appear to be to try and "put a stop to the spread of homosexuality", if I am reading your intent correctly. If you think that being homosexual is a personal choice, or if you think it is somehow immoral, you are sadly mistaken. If you think homosexuals actively attempt to "recruit" others to become homosexual, you are also sadly mistaken. I have had numerous terrific gay friends throughout my lifetime, not one of whom ever made any sort of attempt to "convert" me. Further, I cannot think of one such friend about whom I would use the words "lost", or "not self-reliant", or "immoral." In fact, quite the opposite is the case. You said it yourself very well: "Scouting is not about sexual orientation." So follow your own advice, and don't make it about sexual orientation. Perhaps if you, and others who are afraid of this change, would do some self-examination (no, not that kind) you might discover the phobia you have that is triggering your publicly stated position on this issue.
FourScore
10:06 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Then if scouting is not about sexual orientation Tom, why kick out certain members because of their sexual orientation??? And is scouting supposed to be about teaching kids to discriminate???
Let’s suppose that ‘Jimmy’ joins the Cub Scouts at age 6, when he has no idea what his sexual orientation will be, and from the start, dreams of receiving his eagle scout. Eight years later, after being a model scout, earning all the badges, awards and accomplishments, he realizes he is gay, and the BSA kicks him out. Now his dreams of receiving his eagle scout (which can affect his whole future) are dashed.
Now you explain to me Tom what moral lesson Jimmy’s fellow scouts have learned from having their friend kicked out of their coveted organization under no fault of his own.
Thomas Lotito
10:14 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Not Domino, please think about what you're saying here. We're talking about children and homosexuality. We're talking about allowing pedophiles to openly associate with CHILDREN. Get a grip.
People already have rights, granted to them by the constitution. I do not support a special category for PEOPLE who want to be identified by their behavior.
I do not believe that you had any homosexual friends because they would be attracted to you. Which is a problem for most people if they are not homosexuals.
Maria
10:56 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thomas...please understand the difference...
A pedophile is a person 16 years of age or older who is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children who have not begun puberty.
Homosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual activity between members of the same sex or gender.
They are NOT the same thing.
Not Domino
1:42 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thomas, you are saying that you do not support a special category to grant additional rights to people who want to be identified by their behavior. I agree with you there. However you DO want to take away some rights from those same people whom YOU choose to identify by their "behavior" i.e. their sexual preference. You can't have it both ways, Thomas..
Secondly, your logic in this statement is flawed: "I do not believe that you had any homosexual friends, because if you did, they would be attracted to you, which is a problem for most people if they are not homosexuals."
Aside from the fact that you are labeling me as one of "most people", which is rather presumptuous of you, that statement is the logical equivalent of saying: "I do not believe that married heterosexuals can have any heterosexual friends of the opposite sex, because if they did, they would be attracted to one another, which is a problem for most people who are married." In other words, you automatically assume that all gay men will be attracted to me, and will be unable to hide their affection. Granted, I am pretty good looking (if I do say so myself.) But do you really believe that ALL gay men are attracted to ALL men? By the same logic, I guess you must also believe that ALL heterosexual women in the world are attracted to YOU then, is that right?
I'd love to introduce you to some of my gay friends to try and "convert" you into being more accepting, but I strongly suspect that it wouldn't help.
Comfortably Numb
3:21 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
wait a minute!!!!! Hookermans comment actually sounds reasonable. This must be the "fake hookerman"
FourScore
3:21 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
To dispel any notion that sexual orientation is linked to pedophilia, one has to look no farther than Jerry Sandusky... a married heterosexual. Or how about Phillip Garrido, another married heterosexual who kidnapped and raped Jaycee Dugard when she was only 11. Just as everything else in life, evil people come in all shapes, sizes, genders, races and sexual orientations.
Thomas Lotito
8:49 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Domino, by not allowing homosexuals into the boy scouts, no one is loosing any rights. It is not morally right to to change an organization for a minority of individuals who want to be identified by their sexual proclivities, especially when it involves children.
I have homosexual clients and I must say some of them are very nice people. But I would not change all of society's institutions and give them a special status in order to please a few homosexual activists.
dm
9:22 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
so Thomas, gays can't learn self reliance and improve their moral character?
Anonymous
9:26 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I am confident that there are are many self reliant and moral homosexual people. As there are many straight people who are not moral ^^ A homosexual agenda??? How about just equal rights for humans? Thank you mr. Deboey for your stand as helping to dismiss ignorant,stupid people.
Maria
9:35 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
It's a great thing to read about a tolerant and inclusive role model in our community. Compassion for ALL is key in my book. Way to go, Mr. DeBoey!
thewordgo
9:54 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Good job Mr. DeBoey. It is beyond time that people realize that this ban was ridiculous. It is disgusting that their are some ignorant, bigoted people in this community.
Thomas Lotito
10:06 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
It's all about the money$$$$
The inside word is that the Boy Scouts are going to approve of homosexuals in their ranks because they have been threatened by BIG corporate sponsors to pull their donations.
It's all about the money$$$$
Thomas Lotito
10:06 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Since the inception of the Boy Scouts, Barack Obama is the only president NOT to sign an Eagle Scout's certificate.
Pamela Porter
1:56 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thank you for playing, Thomas...we have some lovely parting gifts.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/eaglescouts.asp
Pat W.
2:33 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
...except for when he does.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/eaglescouts.asp
Thomas Lotito
5:24 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Pamela, that SNOPES attribution is a LIE. My friend has been a Scout leader for over 30 years. As of Today Obama has yet to sign an Eagle Scout certificate.
Kevin Nedd
7:32 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Tom,
Tom,
According to the National Eagle Scout Association's Facebook page, President Obama does indeed sign Eagle Scout certificates. Do want to go on record as saying the parents of the Eagle Scouts stating this claim are liars?
http://www.facebook.com/NationalEagleScoutAssociationBSA/posts/480417718651313
Thomas Lotito
8:49 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Kevin, according to my friend who is a scout master, he said Obama has yet to sign an Eagle Scout certificate. Perhaps we can look further into this matter. I'll see him next week and I'll ask him if I can look at the certificates. In the mean time, maybe Jason could look into it and ask his contacts.
FourScore
3:03 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Tom, go to google images, and target; “Eagle Scout certificates signed by Obama”. You can view actual examples. Are you going to now tell us that these are forgeries???
Kevin Nedd
3:03 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Tom,
The fact you can't accept the official word of the National Eagle Scout Association, as oppose to the hearsay of a "friend" speaks volumes with respect to your lack of objectivity on this issue. Why can't you simply admit you were wrong on this issue and publicly apologize to the President?
Richard Fincher
10:56 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I always get a kick out of these types of forums where the author of a rebuttal begins his or her letter by stating, "..although I am not a homosexual..." Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode, "...not that there is anything wrong with it...." Hey, these are kids, not adults. Like Hookerman, (above), says, a young person would probably be all the way through Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts before sexual orientation ever even entered into the discussion. Let everyone have the same opportunity to have the same type of childhood, the same experiences, the same opportunities. Now having said that, let's keep politics out of organizations like this altogether. If a young man expresses his sexual orientation and it is "against the norm," I for one don't especially want to see Katie Couric in Long Valley interviewing him, Tom Brokaw following the down the river in a canoe, trying to get a sensational picture or story, nor a special merit badge designed for him, (or her), or any other fuss. Just let them be kids. Geesh, isn't everyone sick of "Warhol's 15 minutes of fame" syndrome by now?
John Hemmings
10:56 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thinking, rational people understand that being gay does NOT make one a pedophile. Most of the people on Scouting's so called "Pervert List" were married men; does that mean we should exclude married men?
Early in his 1st term President Obama didn't sign the first few Eagle Scout certificates for logistical reasons; this was corrected years ago.
Lastly, why is it that some people want certain issues to be decided at the local level, except when they disagree with how it might be handled at the local level, then they want it dictated on a national level.
GiantJohn
1:10 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thank you Jay for your comments.
As an Assistant Scout Master in Troop 36, I fully support Jay's position and welcome all boys who want to join Scouts and learn to be better citizens.
The values and skills the Boy Scouts imbue are something that EVERYONE can learn from and will carry with them for the rest of their lives.
The one thing I am intolerant of is intolerance!
Sincerely,
John Neubeck
Asst. Scout Master Troop 36
tangled
4:59 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Assistant Scoutmaster Neubeck, if you are intolerant of intolerance why did you join what you clearly believe is an intolerant organization? If that is truly your feeling, than why would you possibly keep your *KIDS* in such a program?
It isn't like you couldn't have known, their position has been in the headlines for many years and they have stuck to it. At least one board member quit in the past year over it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/boy-scouts-board-member-gay-policy-resignation_n_1465644.html
It looks like the BSA is hiccupping on their decision, a generation and a half apparently wasn't long enough for them to ponder.
So what are you and DeBooey going to do if the BSA decide to table this again?
Jason Koestenblatt
1:13 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thank you for the comments everyone. I'm holding back some that I feel are attacks on individuals while being aware of trying not to censure anyone. So, going forward, please keep the attacks, such as "simple-minded" and "idiot" and so on out of your comment. Do not aim at each other. Discuss the issue at hand, stay on-topic, and treat each other fairly, as this is a very contentious issue.
Thank you.
Kevin Nedd
5:24 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Jason,
Based on the comments, this issue does not appear to be "contentious" at all. The intolerance displayed by one usual (predictable) subject has been overshadowed by the class and grace of all who have responded.
Mark Lipinski
2:33 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thomas Lotito, it might be time to stop drinking the bigot Kool Aid and exhibiting your profound ignorance (at least publicly -- what you do in your own bedroom is your business). Your twisted views on your gay neighbors,fellow Americans and tax payers, however comfortable you are in sharing them with Long Valley and beyond, are both prehistoric and embarrassing (although I'd bet my bottom dollar that it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of your pathology) .
I applaud Mr. DeBoey. He is not only doing the right thing, his inclusiveness is leading future American adults by an exemplary example and will be listed on the correct side of history -- in both our town and our country.
Thomas Lotito
7:32 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Mark Lipinski, the rudimentary principles of American liberty and freedom, embraced by citizens for centuries, is to worship God in spirit and in truth. Although I don't agree with your opinion, it would serve you well if you were a little more tolerant of the founding principles of our nation.
Not Domino
4:59 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Yes, but that was hundreds of years ago, at a time when intelligent people still believed there was a 'god'. Thanks to advances in modern science, we know better now. I'm sure there were many things said at one time that were entirely based on the principle that the earth is flat, too. How times change.
FourScore
8:33 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
And our founding fathers felt that a belief in God was so important to the principles of our country, that they mentioned God exactly ZERO times in our nation's constitution.
Jersey
2:57 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I am saddened to see that the BSA has decided to postpone the vote on this issue. Personally, I will have a hard time encouraging my sons to join an organization with a stated policy of discrimination - it runs contrary to the value system I'm teaching them. It is time that the Boy Scouts do the right thing.
I applaud Mr. DeBoey.
Asserting that gays are more likely to molest children is absurd, and importantly, contrary to studies on the issue. There is no correlation between pedophilia and homosexuality. That is a known fact. The person who believes otherwise is the person who would have believed the propaganda that the brains of Jews were abnormally small back in Nazi Germany. Blind, ignorant belief in that which is false but supports what you want to believe. Pathetic.
deb knobelman
2:57 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
there's always some idiot who thinks gay=pedophile. what's next, the "worldwide jewish conspiracy"?
mrwilson
5:24 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Maybe I'm missing a trick here, but I think this misses the point. This was never really about barring 6 year old gay kids, I remember it being over openly gay scoutmasters.
And Mr. DeBooey, despite all the attaboys, is just saying he'll go along with the national BSA decision. If he wants to be a crusader, go AGAINST their currently bigoted policy. Name a gay assistant scoutmaster, or do something overtly tolerant like a well-publicized joint activity with the Gay Straight Alliance group at West Morris Central.
How about a Patch-sponsored BSA/GSA roundtable.
Here is their webpage with the contact coordinator:
http://central.wmrhsd.org/faculty_site/facultyPage.asp?pageID=4176&facultyID=293
I'm sure Jason would love the accompanying Pulitzer for the coverage.
Maria
3:03 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Thanks for sharing the link mrwilson. My kids are just starting out in the LV school system and it is wonderful to see there is a group like this in the HS.
deb knobelman
5:24 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
what does the church have to do with it? last time i looked, you didn't need to be a christian to be a scout...
Reality Chuck
5:24 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
There are more documented and abbhorant acts by Catholic Priests then gay scout masters abusing the trust of children and parents.....if that is what the "fear" is about...now compare that with all the other "proper" heterosexual abuses of teacher/student, parent/child, neighbor, caregiver.....etc...And a good gay Scout Master's sexaully is equally meaningless to me as a heterosexual one.
mommy1
7:32 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
I for one am glad they are throwing this policy to the wind. I had a hard time deciding if I was going to let me son join an organization that discriminated against certain groups. I never understood it really anyway, as others have pointed out, many boys would not know they were gay until they were almost done with the boy scouts:) And homosexuals are not pedophiles. They let mothers be den leaders, what if we had one of those crazy cougar love messes like that teacher and that young boy? kids of all orientations see each other naked in the locker room anyway so what does it matter...let them be kids
Pamela Porter
7:34 am on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Thomas:
Here's a Wayback link to the letter than appeared on the Greater Alabama Boy Scouts of America web site regarding this issue:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101211195645/http://1bsa.org/article.php?cn=275&account=
You may have to remove the tin foil from your Stetson, but you should be able to see that your friend is incorrect.
Thomas Lotito
3:03 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
Pamela, my friend runs the scout troop, the Eagle Scout certificates had to be reprinted. I saw them. BTW, your link is broken. Maybe you ought to check it out first hand rather than worry about stetson hats, which are classy, and tinfoil is not.
tangled
3:03 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013
I think the reason that this is so flammable an issue is that many people don't understand whether sexual preferences are nature or nurture. Some people say they know one way or the other, but we also know people who are bi or whose preferences have changed and that muddies it.
If you believe that sexual preference may be nurture, to some degree, than the tolerance or the placement of an openly gay scoutleader in a leadership role for your young boy hits at a very deep and ingrained value -- the propagation of your genes. It is a biologically wired imperative to protect your children from harm -- so they can procreate. While recently science and society may have opened answers to gay couples procreating, the biases to raise your kids to be heterosexual extenders of your DNA has been wired in there since we were chimps.
Again, the precedent is best established by considering the extreme scenario, which, of course, is best illustrated by the distinguished academic work in the South Park episode where Gay Al gets kicked out as a Scout leader.
To echo the above, it is nice to say that this local scoutleader would "go along with" tolerance.....but why is he a part of an intolerant organization then now?
Thomas Lotito
1:38 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
The original issue about homosexuals in the scouts was about a homosexual assistant Scoutmaster James Dale, who had made his homosexuality public and whom the BSA had expelled from the organization. Freedom of association allows a private organization like the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to exclude a person from membership when "the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group's ability to advocate public or private viewpoints.
Kevin Nedd
3:23 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Freedom of association also allows a private organization to react to changing market conditions such as declining enrollment, lost sponsorship, and evolving public sentiment. The BSA sees the handwriting on the wall.
LVMom
8:16 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Thank you for being a voice of reason Mr. DeBoey!
Maybe you should tell Boy Scouts change the rule or we create our own Organization.
BARBARA ARNOLD
8:16 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Bravo Beth. The Boy Scouts train the kids to be good citizens and leaders. Why would
We want to leave anyone out. We have so much prejudice today. Please take
The steps to stop it.
My husband was a Boy Scout who went all the way to the Silver Beaver award. He always
Kept in touch with his scouts. He came from a small town in Texas during the depression.
The only thing they had was the Boy Scouts and they all turned out to be very
Accomplished adults. Please keep the tradition going.