'Unacceptable' Sick Bank Deal Rejected By Teachers
West Morris Regional Board of Education, Teacher's Association can't come to terms on action to aid ill colleague.
An effort by faculty members to donate unused sick time to ill colleagues in the West Morris Regional High School district won’t come to fruition, after the Teacher’s Association and Board of Education could not agree on terms.
The idea of a “sick bank” was brought to the board in September 2012, and the nine-member group discussed the possibility behind closed doors at three different meetings, for more than five hours total, according to Superintendent Mackey Pendergrast.
A sick bank would allow faculty members to donate unused sick days to a colleague who has run out of them and is no longer being paid for time missed. Of the district’s 240 faculty members in the association, 150 signed a petition asking the board to allow this initiative.
The sick bank action came about this year to aid Susan Moor, a nurse at West Morris Central currently battling breast cancer. Moor lost all of her accumulated sick days in the spring of 2012 when her 8-year-old daughter died.
“Unfortunately, the Association has received an unacceptable offer from the Board regarding the requested sick bank for Susan Moor,” said Teacher’s Association President Joyce Hartmann. “We are disappointed not only for the immediate help needed for Susan as she is out of sick days, but also the knowledge of the Board’s best practice offered to colleagues in our community.
“It’s the right thing to do,” Hartmann said.
In the case of a sick bank sought by the Association, the donated days would be held by the board of education. Whatever days were not used would be given back to faculty members on a first come, first served basis, Hartmann said.
“[Faculty] has done this in the past outside of our contract to help colleagues in the same situation,” Hartmann said. “We tried to put this in the current contract, but weren’t able to before settling.”
The teachers’ current contract ends June 30, 2013.
“(The Board) treated this with tremendous energy and concern,” Pendergrast said. “We worked on a platform to donate sick days to a colleague in distress. The platform was rejected.”
There were four options for the board to consider as outlined by legal counsel, Hartmann said, including: the sick bank as outlined by Hartmann; the sick bank, giving Moor the ability to use the days minus the cost of a substitute in her absence; do nothing; and to give Moor the sick days in addition to paying the substitute on a daily basis.
If the action went through to allow the sick bank with donated days from each of the 150 signed faculty members, that “would more than meet [Moor’s] needs,” Hartmann said.
Details of which deal was proposed were not released by Pendergrast or Hartmann. The Association leader said it is something the group hopes can be considered in the upcoming negotiations for a new contract.
The next scheduled meeting of the West Morris Regional Board of Education is Monday at 7 p.m. at West Morris Central and is open to the public.
LV Taxpayer
7:09 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
This is a tough one.
If someone is unable to work, due to no fault of their own, they should be given care and compensation should be available. But I believe that's what short and long term disability are for.
Banking sick days is ripe for abuse.
A sick day shouldn't be looked at as a 'use it or loose it' thing - t isn't just another day off. My company (Fortune 100) hasn't given 'sick days' for the last 20 years. We get a certain number of Paid Time Off days, and how we use them is our choice. If you get sick, you use them. If not, they're yours to use how you'd like. You cannot transfer, sell, etc them to other employees. If you get sick after you've used all of your PTOs, you either go out without pay (onesy, twosey sick day), or receive disability for longer term issues.
jesscott
8:28 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
This is all true. Each sick day that belongs to someone has a financial price tag based on that person. That being what it is, we really don't have a mechanism for a social safety net of sick time, it's not practical or feasible to administer and avoid fraud.
What we do have is disability and workmens compensation insurance that we all pay for. Let the system run it's course and if the community wants to assist, get a fund drive going to pay some utilities or something.
The risk we run here is branding people as non compassionate because this approach to the problem is not a good one.
Domino
9:29 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Given LV Taxpayer's frequent comments, it appears that while Fortune 100 companies (you had to add that didn't you - you must be very important) are not too generous with sick days, they are apparently exceedingly generous in letting their highly paid employees fritter through the work day posting on blogs.
Jean Dauernhheim
7:19 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
I think the option of giving Moor the sick days minus the cost of the substitute is a good idea. The cost to taxpayers when an employee is out of work and a substitute must be paid can get out of control.
Ruth
7:39 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
It's a shame that we have come to the point when dollars and cents out weigh human compassion. I'm sure that if someone needs to use the "banked" sick time it is not something they want to do---and it certainly would be abled to be monitored.
There are enough other areas in a school budget that can be evaluated for money being well spent. Caring for a colleague shouldn't be one of them
LV Taxpayer
9:05 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Ruth, it IS a shame, but how do propose determining *when someone becomes a candidate for this special compensation vs. someone who just wants more time off? A note from their doctor? Which illnesses apply? Once you start down *this path, you're essentially doing what Disability and Social Security do, and it becomes redundant, no?
ReasonRules
8:05 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Well said, Ruth. I agree!
mommy1
8:16 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
i find it appalling that coworkers cannot donate their unused sick days...don't we the tax payers have any say in this...of course not. Can she not file for disability?
maria
9:33 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
School employees are not eligible for disability. This should be taken up with the DOE and governor about changing this, for Susan and many others it affects. Unless she took out a supplemental disability plan, AFLAC, or other co.(which many can't afford)
it's truely unfortunate for many.
The Dacey's
9:36 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
This person is suffering more then should be allowed. Cancer a death of a child ,WOW! SIck days would be nice but beside that is there any fund raisers that have been done or are there any planed. We need to come together and raise money for this lady. Let me know if I can help and where I can make a donation.
Rich Dacey
LV Taxpayer
9:38 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
@Domino - here we go with the personal attacks...
12345678
9:46 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
I agree with you, too much room for abuse and not practical at all. How many non-taxpayer funded employees have the option to donate or accept others' sick days?
Tax dollars should not be mistaken for charitable contributions.
ReasonRules
12:55 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
@12345678 - this does not affect your tax dollars. If Mrs. A has 5 sick days accrued, she will either use them, incurring the cost of a substitute or bank them to be paid out upon leaving the district. As a third alternative, she could donate one to Mrs. B, who will then use it, incurring the cost of a substitute. It has no effect on your "tax dollars", they are spent anyway. The value of sick days is considered part of a teacher's compensation. Are there abuses? Certainly - but should that preclude a district from helping one sick colleague? As I said below, this is a wide-spread and common practice, its only controversial with this school board...
Domino
9:57 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Stop pretending that you are a moral/legal authority and are a senor executive in a fortune 100 company and I will stop directing comments at you.
ReasonRules
10:07 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Domino & LV Taxpayer - I so enjoy your exchanges on these boards! They make me smile every time...are you married? Or formerly married to each other? = )
12345678
9:38 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
There is nothing stopping these teachers from taking up a collection and donating themselves to this woman or anyone else in a similar situation. It seems to me that people are more than happy to give to worth causes as evidenced by the many thousands collected through fundraisers reported right here over the past few months. There's no need to play games with taxpayer's money.
ReasonRules
9:44 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Its not the taxpayer's money, the teachers own the sick days regardless. They are banked or used and paid out when the teacher leaves the district. They are part of a teacher's compensation to be used as the teacher decides. Banking sick days for colleagues is an extremely common practice among school districts. Those who do care about school employees.
ReasonRules
9:41 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Sick days are the property of the TEACHER who has accumulated them. They should be free to do with them as they wish. Why should sub costs be deducted? If the teacher who OWNS the sick days uses 1, there is no deduction for sub costs. This school board and central administration has proven time and time again that they do not care about school-level employees, it is an administrative-centered district. New super = 7 new administrative positions - 1 administrative position (suspiciously personal, IMHO). Soon the district will not be able to get teachers given the reputation for being anti-teacher that continues to grow.
LV Taxpayer
10:06 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
if indeed the unused sick days are paid out to the teacher when they leave, there's really no difference if they transfer them to someone in need.
A bigger question is: why are they paid for unused sick time? Should we pay people for unused disability and unused unemployment too?
Either a sick day is for when you're sick, or it's just another day off, no?
12345678
10:11 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
So when sick days are donated, how is the cost determined? Teaching salaries vary a great deal. And, who decides who should receive the donated sick days?
ReasonRules
10:15 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
LV Taxpayer - that is an interesting point, but a separate issue. First, teachers are not eligible for state disability. It simply isn't an option. Many purchase disability at their own personal cost. Whether teachers should be allowed to bank sick days is a different issue, but I don't know of a district where they can't. Christie has set some limits on it though. These issues are not only a matter of dollars, however, but speak to how a district attracts and retains good teachers. Sick days are conventionally viewed as part of a teacher's compensation. And, in this district, teacher compensation has been eroded repeatedly in the last 5 - 6 years, so taking away another piece of it may not be advisable. I fear our school board is short-sighted and only sees dollars & cents.
ReasonRules
10:22 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
12345678 - all school employees are paid by steps - I would imagine the value of a sick day is based on who donates it & who uses it. When sick days are donated, it is for specific person, not just some communal bank that anyone can draw from. The teachers decide who gets the donated sick days by donating them to a person. The reason shouldn't concern the school board.
goober
10:13 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Sick day and vacation banking is a scam that cost taxpayers WAAAY too much money. Look how many $100,000 payouts have to be funded for retiring cops recently. Some towns didn't even have the money in the budget! In my town my taxes have gone up 2k in the past 5 years. over 60% of that goes to education. I get nauseous thinking that MY taxes eventually may go to a teacher who 'deserves' to be paid for not being sick. How does the town handle sick pay? Is it an insurance claim? If thats the case....insurance fraud.
jesscott
11:20 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
I think that anyone posting to this who is a teacher in the district should have the courtesy to identify themselves as such. That way the opinions would be recognizable as having a special interest in the outcome.
ReasonRules
11:42 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Not me! You?
LV Taxpayer
11:45 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
so maybe teachers should pay into Disability, and be eligible to receive benefits if qualified? What's the issue with that?
I also like the idea of fundraisers.
Nolan
11:54 am on Monday, January 28, 2013
Being on disability is different that being employed. Ms Moore needs health insurance. To have health insurance, she needs a salary. The Governor mandated public employees contribute to their health plan.
Go on unpaid leave, you have to COBRA your healthcare. With what?
Public employers have rules and no heart.
As I see this, she has no sick time left because her daughter died, and she's looking at the prospect of having breast cancer with no health insurance (Death sentence).
Once upon a time this was a place where you wouldn't back the bus over a person when they were down.
GiantJohn
12:25 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
While I feel terribly about Susan's situation, there are mechanisms in place that should compensate her such as LTD or STD insurance.
My company offers NO sick days but rather has an honesty policy. If you're sick you take the day off, if not, well you're not sick now are you and you go to work.
It is an incredibly effective way of keeping everyone honest vs. a use it or lose it system or the unsustainable and ridiculous "bank" system.
Regardless of your position, I don't think anyone should be able to "bank" sick days and use that as part your long term compensation package like you often see when those in public service retire.
Nolan
1:17 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
Again, when you are on LTD or STD, how do you pay for your Health Insurance? You would need an insurance policy that provides some portion of your income AND your premium. So, if she could survive on $40,000 a year she would need $20,000 for insurance, for a total package of $60K per year.
The teachers are trying to be humane and help a fellow worker. I'm sure the stress of wondering if your health care will be lost isn't helping Ms Moore recover. What ever happened to doing what's morally correct?
Not Domino
1:42 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
Very simple solution here! The teachers who want to donate their sick days should instead just give the cash equivalent to the teacher in need. They can easily convert their own days into cash, and Susan's days off are costing her in cash as well. Cash is the appropriate equalizer in this situation. It completely eliminates the problem of needing to convert dissimilarly valued time-off days. By giving their days, the teachers were already giving something worth cash anyway, so may as well just do the conversion themselves to simplify things.
The issue of whether or not sick days should be able to be banked is completely separate policy issue. My vote on that is that each year, you start with 3 sick days, and it's "use them or lose them" each year. No banking them. Yes, this basically amounts to three extra vacation days per year for most people. But it's tough to find another arrangement that everybody would be happy with. Again, though - this is a separate conversation from what to do about Susan's situation.
McDuff
1:51 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
The teachers' union has historically refused their teachers to do any additional thing for the district or its students that falls outside the scope of the teachers' contract unless the teachers are paid (well) for it. The union has had ample opportunities over the years to negotiate a sick day bank into its contract and the fact that it hasn't speaks loudly to the union's own priorities. Don't blame the BOE for this predicament; blame the union. If access to a sick day bank is so important to union members, the union should make a meaningful effort during the next round of upcoming negotiations to place it in the contract. As for doing the "humane" thing, it is certainly no secret that the union leaders were threatening to forbid teachers to not write letters of recommendation for graduating seniors applying to colleges during the last round of contentious negotiations. Ms. Moor is an unfortunate victim of her union's own greed and short sightedness. In order to secure a sick day bank, union leadership would need to offer a concession to the BOE to offset the costs incurred, and it's pretty clear the union has historically refused to do just that.
Jersey
1:57 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
But can teachers "cash out" their sick days prior to retirement? If so, then yes, I think that solution is feasible. If not, they'd have to advance money that wouldn't be compensated for some time. While some may be able to do that, I'm sure many others would not.
I am generally opposed to banking sick days, and favor PTOs as well. I know the teachers union would never go for it. But as posted before, most of corporate America uses the PTO system - it's simple, if you're out, use a PTO. At my company, you can only carry over 10 days per year. That way, upon retirement, there is no huge cash payout for days accumulated over decades.
On disability - do the teachers not pay into disability? Or in this case, has the disability simply run out?
The sad thing is that the board should be able to make a decision to help this woman out under her extraordinary circumstances, as any decent private employer would do. I hope there are fundraisers for her regardless.
Lt.Dan
3:18 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
I think something should be done for this woman, for sure. What exactly did the BOE propose and the union reject? All behind closed doors....the side that was unreasonable is not clear to me. An NJEA negotiator versus a board attorney is not exactly the way to a compassionate settlement. The NJEA probably sees some sort of advantageous precedent here. The board attorney is charged with upholding the taxpayer's end of a contract that took....how long to hammer out? Years?
Jason, get on your horse. This idea certainly wasn't invented at West Morris. Some other school district must have lessons learned.
GiantJohn
3:28 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
Where does it say she lost her healthcare benefits? It just sounds to me that she is looking for a full day's pay via "sick day bank" vs. nothing or STD or LTD insurance.
If she has no healthcare benefits that is truly tragic. But if she does, she is confronted with the same issues anyone in the private sector would have have to contend with. No full pay, lost time at work etc.
No easy answer here but I wish her well.
Jersey
10:10 am on Tuesday, January 29, 2013
I think the concern is that if she can't work and doesn't have sick days, she'll be terminated. If she's terminated, she'll have the option of COBRA, but as we all know it's extremely expensive. It is the same sort of problem faced in the private sector, but that doesn't mean that it's right that anyone should be in such a predicament.
It's a balancing act to make sure extreme cases like this are handled so that the person is cared for without allowing others to abuse the system.
There MUST be a middle ground that can be accomplished for this case. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the board's inability to find a solution.
McDuff
4:25 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
From the Observer-Tribune, May 18th, 2012 : "The sticking point in the job description for the four content supervisors revolved around the current policy to allow retiring employees over 50 with 10 years of district service to cash in unused sick days for $100 up to $15,000." I believe teacher's unused sick pay caps out per the terms above. Can anyone confirm this? If so, it does change the dynamics of the sick pay bank conversation.
n
7:15 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013
I too think that sick days are a scam and that we have a totally unsustainable system as it relates to compensation of public union employees in this state. However, this woman has really gotten the short end of the stick in life and the use of other teachers sick days, which are in fact theirs, should be allowed.
LV Taxpayer
6:34 am on Tuesday, January 29, 2013
I agree - we should do what we can to help this person in need. If teachers get to bank their sick days, then what's the difference whether they give them to someone in need now? And Ms. Moore can certainly use them now.
But contractually, something needs to be done to handle this sort of thing in the future without the sick day shell game. They should not be able to bank them and should have adequate disability coverage for events such as this.
Russ Crespolini
1:46 pm on Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Hello folks, thanks for commenting. We are continuing to follow this story and there are some more details about fundraising efforts found here: http://patch.com/A-1ybh
There is more to come and we expect further updates to be available soon. Thanks again for reading and commenting.
Heidi Prudente
7:03 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
We are hosting a fundraising event to benefit Mrs. Moor and her family at Bob's Long Valley Pizza, Deli & Bagels. Please come in for Breakfast, Lunch or Dinner (Dine-In or Take-Out) on Monday, February 11th. 20% of our sales for the entire day will be donated to Mrs. Moor.
https://www.facebook.com/LongValleyPizza