Ten Years Later: A Muslim-American Perspective
Former Long Valley resident recalls perception in a post-9/11 world.
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Imagine waking up one day to learn a group of people–who share your religion–plotted terroristic attacks, killing thousands in the name of the God you worship.
Not many people outside of your family and close friends understand the basics of your faith, and now have painted you with the same brush as the men who carried out their mission on Sept. 11, 2001.
For Sarah Iftekhar, a 2001 graduate of West Morris Central, her life–and community–changed that day.
“There was a marked difference of perception after the attacks,” Iftekhar said. The now-Chicago resident was enrolled in Northwestern University in Illinois that day, but her parents and two younger siblings still resided in Long Valley.
Iftekhar considers herself and her family observant Muslims, and the children in her family have been spiritual from an early age. Iftekhar’s family is from Pakistan, and she still has many aunts and uncles in the South Asia country.
But the perception of the Muslim community after 9/11 was hard to understand, Iftekhar said. “We felt there was a bad perception of us,” she said. “People are looking for you to answer for another group of people that were just so foreign to us.”
While Iftekhar was in Chicago, which boasts a strong Muslim-American community, her family back in New Jersey was going through a different experience.
Iftekhar’s brother, Osman, a Long Valley Middle School student at the time, received a phone call at home from a classmate and neighbor. The peer said, “Look at what your people did to us.”
The youngest of the family, Sarah’s sister Nadia, received similar treatment from a friend after the attacks. “She said to Nadia, ‘Why do you even care what happened? You’re not American anyway,’” Iftekhar said.
“At that age, kids are very open with their feelings,” Iftekhar said. “But there’s so much misinformation out there and a lot of misunderstanding. When I say I’m Muslim now, there’s a lot attached to it.”
Reading or watching the news became seldom, at most, after the attacks. “We didn’t expose ourselves to the criticism that was out there, and we really shied away from the 9/11 stuff,” Iftekhar said.
A sigh of relief
Nearly nine years and seven months later, the mastermind behind the attacks, Osama bin Laden, was captured and killed by a team of U.S. Navy SEALs on May 1, 2011.
“It was an interesting set of emotions,” Iftekhar said when she first heard the news of bin Laden’s capture. “There was relief–it felt like this chapter in history was now over. It was a sigh of relief for the Muslim community, but on a human level, it’s difficult to celebrate anyone’s death.”
Iftekhar said the community around her shared those sentiments, but that there was no rejoicing in the killing of another person.
The positive political activism on behalf of the Muslim-American community was a major factor in the community regaining a better outside perception, Iftekhar said.
While the last decade has been one of personal growth and happiness for Iftekhar, a wife and mother who recently enrolled in law school, it’s had plenty of rough stretches for her and the community she is part of.
But now, a decade later and two wars lived through born from those attacks, she feels the Muslim-American community can move forward, and hopes that her children won’t have to be subjected to the same in their lifetime.
Thomas Lotito
7:23 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
“It was an interesting set of emotions,” Iftekhar said when she first heard the news of bin Laden’s capture. “There was relief–it felt like this chapter in history was now over. It was a sigh of relief for the Muslim community, but on a human level, it’s difficult to celebrate anyone’s death.”
Could it be that Ms. Iftekhar struggled with her emotions about Bin Laden's death because Bin Laden was a Muslim? Bin Laden and his Alqaeda terrorist network was the face of evil in our time, killing 3000 Americans. Bin Laden got what he deserved. I'm only sorry he didn't die the way his victims did, after all Muslims believe an eye for an eye is justice.
Christy Ward
8:39 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
I am not a Muslim but a Christian of European descent and Ms. Iftekhar's mixed emotions mirrored mine when I heard of bin Laden's death...I was relieved but could not celebrate the death of another. The way in which many Americans have placed wholesale blame on an entire people because of what a relatively small group has done is shameful.
Thomas Paine
2:15 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
@Christy: One of the take aways from the article is that ignorance causes people to use blanket judgements and to form stereotypes. How are your comments justified in lumpy Americans together into a group and heaping shame on them? Americans understand the nuances, but for a few ignorant people who let their emotions drive their un-American behavior.
Christy Ward
2:29 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Thomas Paine (or whoever you are...I do wish people leaving comments would use their real names), You are right and I stand corrected. In some defense of my comments I will say that I have seen far more of the blame game than not. That does not, however, permit me to lump everyone of any nationality, ethnicity, or religion, into a single category.
Nancy Koestenblatt
9:14 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
I share those feeling of Ms. Iftekhar and Christy. I don't have to explain the emotions and feelings Americans shared that day of September 11. I feel that it's understood how horrible and unforgettable that day will always be. However, I was ashamed to see people in America celebrating someones death in a way that Al qaeda would. With flags and cheers, parties in the streets. Whether Muslim, Christian or whatever faith you have, I feel that in being an American, one should portray decency. I feel that Bin Laden's death was justice being surved, a proud moment for America but let's not flaunt it like a five year old sticking his tongue out. Lets be happy that justice was served and people who were affected on a personal level can continue to heal and get some closure. Praying for all of you and thinking of you all especially this next coming days.
Thomas Lotito
9:58 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Americans celebrate the death of a degenerate, psychopath, Osma Bin Laden, who hijacked a religion and murdered 3000 Americans in the name of Allah on 9-11.
We also celebrate the fact that Bin Laden will never ever again be able to plot evil and kill Americans again. Justice was done when Bin Laden was killed.
Moreover, celebrating the death of Bin Laden is therapeutic for people who were traumatized by the events on 9-11, it helps them to get over their grief, even though it's ten years later.
No one is blaming a whole group of people (Muslims) for the deaths of three thousand Americans on 9-11. But it looks that way when Muslims want to show some sort of sympathy and remorse for the death of Bin Laden. perhaps if you had lost someone on 9-11 you might feel differently.
Nancy Koestenblatt
10:08 am on Thursday, September 8, 2011
I hope my comment wasn't taken out of context. By all means, I feel the same way in who Osma Bin Laden was, as you spelled it. And I completely agree that Americans have every right to "celebrate" and be proud that a man who hurt so many lives is now dead. I was just saying that I don't think we should act like "they" do. Isn't that one of the reasons we hate or disapprove of the Al qaeda? No respect for human life, no remorse. I just didn't want Americans to be painted as such people. And I'm not 100% sure if the last comment pertained to me...I don't want to make any assumptions but as to whether or not I knew someone who was lost on 9-11 is personal to me and I chose not to share that with Patch readers. As I said before, to others who may have read my last post - my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Thomas Lotito
12:39 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
I'm not embarrasses by any American who celebrates the death OBL. How people act is their own business. Are you embarrassed Memorial day or Veterans day parades? (rhetorical) Of course you're not.
Memorial day and Veterans day are solemn celebrations honoring our soldiers living and dead who were victorious in war.
Do you remember what Colin Powel said a few years ago when the Arch Duke of Cantebury asked him if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush?"
Powell said,"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."
In the last ten years young brave American Soldiers have died keeping America safe, while at the same time liberating Muslim people. The point is America is a country willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order that generations of people can live in freedom and safety. When we have a victory (The death of OBL) after such a loss of life (3000 people killed at the WTC a celebration/commemoration is necessary and appropriate for the occasion.
Thomas Paine
4:48 pm on Friday, September 9, 2011
That's right, Mr. Lotito, it's a time to celebrate all those Muslims we liberated under the dictators we propped up. All those Muslims tortured by Mubarak's police state and murdered under the Shah of Iran and let's not forget our "friend" Saddam Hussein who gassed his own people.
Yes sir, victories to celebrate.
Thomas Lotito
12:42 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Lastly, Americans are not a people that celebrate evil.Americans area people the celebrate the triumph over evil.
Domino
1:45 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Mr. Lotito, you are not embarrassed by your own ignorance.
Barry O
1:55 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Neither am I.
Barry O
1:56 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
I haven't a clue how the economy works.
Thomas Lotito
1:56 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Domino,Your obsession with me is creepy.
cv
2:02 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
Didn't people celebrate when Nazis were defeated? I have spoken to many WW 2 vets that killed Nazis. It was a celebration of good over evil.
gladtobe
10:14 pm on Thursday, September 8, 2011
While I understand we should never paint one group with the same brush, I have to say that, I have been continually disappointed by the lack of supposed "moderate" Muslims in the US and around the world speaking out against the horrific crimes perpetrated by the extremist Muslims. I believe this is why they continue to have ill will felt towards them as well as much suspicion. As an individual who conducts business in Europe, as well as the US, I have seen with my own eyes the increasing way in which the Muslim community wants to impose their beliefs on the western world, and if they are not satisfied they often resort to violence.
However, regarding the other comments related to this article, I think all Americans breathed a sigh of relief when Bin Laden was killed but some of us recognized that to celebrate his death in the streets made us look as uncivilized as those who celebrated our losses during 9/11. And as to the commenter with the President Obama profile picture, I sincerely hope you are not older than seven. Comments like yours contribute nothing to the kind of dialog we need to move our country forward.
cv
7:26 am on Friday, September 9, 2011
Europe has an extremist Muslim problem.
Barbara
10:59 am on Friday, September 9, 2011
So you're all still buying the fact that Obama's mission killed Bin Laden. Rumor has it that he's been dead for years.... watch 'Wag the Dog." A good friend of my husband's has been married to a Iranian woman for over 30 years. She was educated in England, as were her sisters. Though she is a devote Muslim.... she has never worn (nor does any of her family) a Burqua or even a head scarf. She is true Persian. People have trouble with extremism Islam and people who want Sharia law and wear the veil. This is a completely different kind of Muslim and these are the ones that we are nervous about. However, having said that.... my husband worked with several Muslim engineers at a tech company. They were not American citizens. They loved the US and all it had to offer, but one of them admitted that if he was ever directed to do "jihad," then that was what he would do, because that's what the Koran dicdates. When the company had major downsizing, he lost his job (as did my husband).... this "friend" was panicked that he would have to go back to Egypt. He would do anything to stay in this country including abreviating his name so it would appear more American when looking for jobs. It was only through his American contacts that (people who had worked with him) that he was able to get another job and stay here. So I can't help but wonder.... would he still commit Jihad, if directed?
Barry O
4:10 pm on Friday, September 9, 2011
I can assure you that he was killed by the Navy Seals in Pakistan, and I'm in a position to know. I have the pictures to prove it (but I won't show them to you because that would insult Muslims).
Thomas Lotito
5:51 pm on Friday, September 9, 2011
Payne! The Shah of Iran was good for the region. Jimmy Carter, is responsible for the Shah's downfall. Carter was instrumental in bringing about the first Muslim government controlled nation in modern times. If you under stood the region you would support and celebrate the young people of Iran who want no part of a Muslim caliphate. They want to become Americanized.
Obama adapted GWBs policies to suit his Muslim nation building agenda, Libya s an example.. It's almost 2012 and we're still in Iraq. Obama is Jimmy Carter on steroids.
Thomas Paine
1:54 pm on Saturday, September 10, 2011
Lotito! Your logic and history are wrong. If a good thing has come to the young people of Iran (as you claim) such that they want to be "Americanized" (assuming that's a good thing) then it follows that they got that way under the Ayatollah rather than the Shah. Nevertheless, by your logic, they would have been better off under a CIA puppet Shah and by "Americanized" you mean people who appreciate the human rights abuses under the Gestapo-like SAVAK or Gitmo or Abu Ghraib.
What new apologetic argument do you offer to the people of Iran? That the American overlords know what's best for the Iranian people? That the Iranians were much better off under the CIA-installed Shah than under the democratically elected Mohammad Mosaddegh? Look it up.
Thomas Lotito
2:36 pm on Saturday, September 10, 2011
Paine, the more you write about this subject the more you reveal your leftist group think ideology. The Muhammad Mosaddegh election was a sham, it was about as fair as an election run by Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez and was probably run Amedinejab.
If you knew anything about the region the Iranian peoples are not unified nation they're Persians desendents of what is now Turkistan,surrounded by Bedouins. Who, BTW are constantly at each others throats.Which is why the region is so unstable. This is why they redraw the lines in the sand every hundred years or so.
Iran has dozens of political parties; however, ideologically the government is generally divided into three main groups. The struggle among these three groups is to decide the question of how an Islamic republic should be conducted.
Young people in Iran want no part of it. Have you read about young people causing civil unrest with water gun fights? http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h1gLblO6xkDwbb5awPBMG29StA-g?docId=9287621216fe4c0dab7bb0881df7971f
Read it and get back to me.
Thomas Paine
9:10 pm on Sunday, September 11, 2011
So then your answer is yes on both accounts. In your opinion:
1) That the people of Iran were better off with a brutal U.S. puppet government and the CIA-trained SAVAC to keep them in line.
2) That the U.S. is somehow a stabilizing element in the region (and in the world) by overthrowing governments and picking winners and losers.
Yours is the typical neo-conservative thinking that has been prevalent since the days of Woodrow Wilson, waging war to "make the world safe for democracy". America has had a interventionist policy ever since, with many failures, much bloodshed and lasting resentment built up around that policy.
Thomas Lotito
9:41 pm on Sunday, September 11, 2011
Paine, I suppose you would have called Teddy Roosevelt a neo-con too when he charged up San Juan Hill?
Thomas Paine
11:23 pm on Sunday, September 11, 2011
No sir, what I am saying is that Washington needs to make sure that the United States does not fall into the imperial trap of every other superpower in history, spending greater and greater time and money and energy stabilizing disorderly parts of the world on the periphery, while at the core its own industrial and economic might is waning.
Thomas Lotito
9:06 am on Monday, September 12, 2011
Paine, I might agree with you on that point.
einaphets
7:22 am on Monday, September 12, 2011
Hey mr. Lotito, Rome is burning and Nero is fiddling. It is the arrogance of Americans that wilLleadthis country where mNy other super powers have gone. Btw the people of Iran bought the shah down not Jimmy Carter. Your radical hatred for anything democratic taints your arguments just a bit!
Jason Koestenblatt
8:19 am on Monday, September 12, 2011
Thanks for your comments, everyone. Please be sure to stay on topic, though, as we've strayed pretty far afield.
Thomas Lotito
9:16 am on Monday, September 12, 2011
I don't know Jason,I think the thread is relevant. Though very broad, the problems were' experiencing with terrorism involves decades of US foreign policy and the effect it has had on the peoples of the Mid-East and Asia Minor.
FourScore
1:50 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011
George W. Bush stated that he was “not overjoyed” to hear about bin Laden’s death, but admitted to being happy that justice prevailed. Apparently even he had conflicting emotions about it. I don’t think this had anything at all to do with the author being Muslim.
Thomas Lotito
4:39 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011
Bush was, as you put it, "not over joyed" about Bin Laden's death because Bin Laden was a a high value target, rich with information that could stop more terror attacks. I doubt Bush had any misgivings about Bin Laden's death because he promised that he would bring to justice the people responsible for bringing down the WTC. Until you post the attribution of Bush's quote in context, your post is hyperbole.
FourScore
7:32 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011
President George W. Bush says he was "not overjoyed" when President Barack Obama told him Osama bin Laden was dead because the campaign to track down
the al Qaeda leader was done not "out of hatred, but to exact judgment."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/14/politics/main20062893.shtml
In other words, he is happy that judgment was met through bin Laden's death, but to take pleasure in another person's death would display a pure hatred that he does not feel. I think this is pretty much in the same ballpark as what the Muslim couple is saying.
Thomas Lotito
8:27 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011
No, he's not, in context, Bush, would not say publicly he's "overjoyed" with OBL's death. Bush is a responsible leader and he knows that a statement like that might result in an attack on our troops over seas.
Bush also said that Islam was a "religion of peace" while the US invaded Afgahnistan and Iraq. Meanwhile, in 2002 Muslim extremist Alqeada leader Kalid Sheik Mohamed, from the "religion of peace" admitted to chopping off the head of Daniel pearl a Jewish journalist, who went to Pakisatn to investigate shoe Bomber Richard Reid.
Bush is smart enough not to get into a war of words with the press, he said these things in order not to provoke an argument with Muslim Leaders here and abroad.
anybodybutchristie
11:58 pm on Monday, September 12, 2011
I guess Lotito would ignore that Catholics proclaim their religion as one of "peace" with the Crusades as a minor blemish. Do all modern day Catholics carry the stain of those who proclaim the decree of the Council of the Clermont? Of course not. But in "Lotito World" all Muslims carry the stain of KSM.
Thomas Lotito
8:21 am on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Kevin,thanks for bringing up that point. The Catholic Church's policies later gave way to the reformation. On 31 October 1517, Martin Luther started the protestant church. Luther fed up with the Catholic church selling salvation (indulgences) , proclaimed Ephesians, 2, vs, 8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." In the same way Islam needs a reformation where it separates itself from nefarious characters like Osama Bin Laden and Kalid Sheik Mohamed and those who would terrorize and kill people in the name of Allah.
Thomas Paine
4:15 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Native Americans were once lumped into one group with no distinction between peaceful or enemy tribes. They were all lumped together, as in "the only good Indian is a dead Indian."
Similarly, Lotito gives no indication in his comments here that he makes any distinction between peaceful or radical Muslims, and goes so far as infer that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is somehow (in Lotito's mind) the designated spokesman for the "religion of peace".
The point being that it's reprehensible to lump people together into stereotypes and use them as fresh meat for the mindless zombie worshipers of the neocon religion.
And Jason, this is on topic because the conversation here illustrates exactly how and why the peaceful Muslim-Americans are lumped together with the jihadists by the (hopefully) small group of mindless un-Americans.
MadInNJ
4:28 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Last time I checked, the Crusades ended over 700 years ago. Have we gone even 700 minutes since the last honor killing, or terrorist bombing in the name of Allah? It's hard to consider Islam a religion of peace when there doesn't seem to be anyone standing up to those who use it as an excuse to kill.
P.S. Salman Rushdie is still waiting for the fatwā to be lifted, and that was for writing a novel about Islam!
Thomas Lotito
6:15 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Paine.This quote is from Barbara .." my husband worked with several Muslim engineers at a tech company. They were not American citizens. They loved the US and all it had to offer, but one of them admitted that if he was ever directed to do "jihad," then that was what he would do, because that's what the Koran dictates"
Kinda of says it all, you don't know how many people of the Islamic faith will take the Koran literally and kill in the name of Allah. Mad stated it correctly, I'm still waiting for some faction of Isalm to condemn the terroists too
FourScore
7:09 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
A quick internet search will show that many Muslim leaders around the world condemned terrorists acts like 9-11. Muslims have also been instrumental in thwarting terrorist acts that are being planned within their community, and police rely on them as informants. This was certainly the case with the Fort Lee plans a couple years back.
People of ANY religion can use their beliefs as an excuse to carry out horrid acts. Warren Jeffs used his Christian beliefs to rape little girls.
Thomas Lotito
7:28 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
This statement is wrong. "Warren Jeffs used his Christian beliefs to rape little girls". It should read like this. "Warren Jeffs used his Mormon beliefs to rape little girls". The Christian church never practiced polygamy.
FourScore
8:36 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Last I checked Tom, the Mormon church is a Christian sect.
Thomas Paine
10:34 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Actually, Thomas, the early Christians were almost exclusively Jews and many of them practiced polygamy (as was permitted by the Jewish authorities at the time). Have you forgotten the parable of the ten virgins?
I see that you quoted Martin Luther in one of your arguments. Perhaps a quote from him is appropriate here too:
"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."
Thomas Paine
11:02 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
But of course Luther also said "Jews are devils damned to hell" and that "their synagogues should be burned", therefore we must be careful to pick and choose what we quote from him when making our arguments that he reformed the Christian Church.
Thomas Lotito
11:14 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Paine the Early Christian Church did not practice polygamy. Mormons sects that practice polygamy are copying Abraham, the Father of Isaac. I did not quote Martin Luther, I quoted the bible. The Catholic Church or the protestant church for that matter, never sanctioned of polygamy at any point in it's history.
Thomas Paine
2:49 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Mr. Lotito, Calvin said polygamy was "exceedingly prevalent" in the early Christian church. Luther said it wasn't against the scriptures, so far as he could discern. It was the Romans who didn't like it and thus it was eliminated with Constantine.
The point being that people project their beliefs onto history because they can't handle the truth.
Thomas Lotito
9:48 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Mormons call them selves Christian, but their beliefs are not the same as Christians.The Christian church considers Mormonism a cult. Once again, the Christian church never practiced pedophile polygamy. I bet all Christian Churches look the same to you.
FourScore
10:08 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Ahhhh.... so what you're saying Tom is that Christianity is a religion with many different sects, which hold many different beliefs, and not all Christians should be judged by or held accountable for the actions of one sect. Wouldn't you agree then that the same thing could be said about Islam???
By the way, the Christian bible does not condemn polygamy nor pedophilia. Jeffs did not break the laws of Christianity, only the laws of the state of Utah.
Thomas Lotito
10:41 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
No Hman, Mormonism is not a sect of Christianity, it is a totally different religion. As a whole, Islam is less divided than Christianity and Judaism - the vast majority of the world's Muslims are Sunnis. And Sufism is a mystical approach to Islam that is approved as orthodox by nearly all Muslims.
The Bible does condemn child polygamy, it's called sin. Mathew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Once again, in the new testament Christians did not practice polygamy.
Thomas Paine
10:50 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Thomas is very careful not to paint all Christians the same for the beliefs or practices of one sect, but there is no end to his zeal in painting all of Islam with the brush of the Jihadists. In his earlier lives, he was a 12th century crusader and a 17th century Puritan.
Thomas Lotito
11:06 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Paine Read before you post! As a whole, Islam is less divided than Christianity and Judaism - the vast majority of the world's Muslims are Sunnis. And Sufism is a mystical approach to Islam that is approved as orthodox by nearly all Muslims.
Thomas Lotito
11:21 pm on Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Paine, your off topic.
Thomas Paine
2:55 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
It's not off topic if the counter-arguments cause you to pontificate your bigotry as a perfect illustration of what this article speaks of.
FourScore
8:57 am on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Tom said; “Mormonism is not a sect of Christianity, it is a totally different religion.”
Except that they call themselves; “Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”, and follow the Christian bible. As far as polygamy goes, Exodus 21:10 states “a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry”, and in Mathew 5:17-18 Jesus says; "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them”. Thus, there is nothing in the new testament, nor in Jesus’s teachings that forbids polygamy, and no reason why Mormons shouldn’t be considered Christians.
So Tom, you’re very quick to hold all Muslims accountable for the actions of any Muslim group, even though you quickly distance yourself from the actions of another Christian group. Since I have not heard a loud condemnation from the Christian community for the action of Jeffs and his group, should assume that all Christians condone polygamy and pedophilia???
Thomas Lotito
9:34 am on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Hookerman, you're so off topic and out of context it's becoming hysterical. Mormons follow the book of Mormon, they distort the king James version of the bible by defining it with Mormon literature and the book of Mormon. They use the name Jesus Christ, but they are not considered Christians because they teach that Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin. This is anathema to the basic doctrines of the Christian Church.
You took Mathew 5 vs.17 -18 out of context, Jesus was talking about himself and his mission on earth, his death, his resurrection and ascension to God the father, Of course the law was not abolished, it's the law that we are under and the law judges us. It's Jesus Christ, fully God, fully man, that save us form the penalty of the law when we believe in hm for our salvation.
The back and fourth about Mormonism is off topic and out of context, your personal angst atowards me is twisted and angry and is becoming down right creepy. You don't seem to care about right and wrong, you will write say anything to box me into a corner in this debate.The rest of your post is redundant and is not worth answering.
FourScore
11:53 am on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Not off-topic at all.
On the very first post of this thread, you stated; "Could it be that Ms. Iftekhar struggled with her emotions about Bin Laden's death because Bin Laden was a Muslim?".
My point was that for you to assume that Iftekhar has a common cause with bin Laden because they are both Muslim, is me like assuming that you have a common cause with Jeffs because you are both Christian. Both are equally ridiculous assumptions.
That's it... no personal angst at all.
Thomas Lotito
12:42 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
That's your assumption, Go back and read my posts, I've more than proven your points to be wrong. And Ive also proven that Muslims are less divided and have sympathy, and might eve join up with a person who would kill Americans.
Your example of Warren Jeff's is invidious.
FourScore
1:45 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
You've 'proven' absolutely nothing. You've stated your opinion, and that's all. I have heard no one other than yourself opine that Mormons are not Christians, and it is well established that they believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, and their personal savior. Does this mean that if Romney is elected next year, he will be our first non-Christian president??? To state that you've proven that all Muslims have sympathy is laughable.
Thomas Paine
2:34 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Mr. Lotito uses stereotypes when it serves his neocon agenda, but his facts and logic defy common sense (neocons don't need to make sense). On the one hand, Muslims are supposedly united and can therefore be painted with one brush, notwithstanding the occasional war between sects. Likewise, certain heretical LDS sects still practice an illegal and perverse form of polygamy, therefore all Mormons can be painted with the same brush. God forbid we stereotype in the same way Mr. Lotito does by lumping all Christians together in the same way.
Like I said, Mr. Lotito was likely a Puritan in a previous life. The Puritans persecuted the peaceful and pacifist Quakers by dragging them through town behind a cart, cutting off their ears, flogging them, putting them in prison and burning them alive at the stake. It seems that they weren't really Christians in the eyes of the Puritans.
Thomas Paine
2:37 pm on Wednesday, September 14, 2011
The more things change, the more they are the same. -- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr
Thomas Lotito
7:36 am on Friday, September 30, 2011
American born militant al-Queada terrorist boss Anwar al-Awlaki was killed today in Yemen. This is cause for patriotic Americans to celebrate. al-Awlaki will never again plot, inspire, preach and conspire to kill Americans. This is major victory in the war on terror against al-Queada.
cv
8:01 am on Friday, September 30, 2011
Yeah